Suleiman Ali BaigNOT LONG AFTER answering questions on Islam’s position towards homosexuality for a young journalism student who had contacted me through my local mosque with the aim of writing up an article on the topic, I curiously began to hear of Nur Warsame, Australia’s first openly-gay Imam.
I had always suspected we would have an Imam of such a persuasion but was never quite sure when. Given that the two experiences occurred within the same week, I was left pondering over the notion that as well as being a topic worthy of greater openness and discussion, this was perhaps one which people might potentially have a certain degree of confusion about and might thus require greater clarification.
This was highlighted by the fact that one of the questions which I was asked by the young journalist, who interestingly enough originated from a Muslim background but (to my understanding) no longer identified himself as a Muslim.
His question was, “Can someone be Muslim and gay at the same time?” I was initially struck by the simplicity of the question –in that homosexuality has always been seen as a great sin, to the extent that Ibn Al-Qayyim (d. 1350) said:
There is no sin that causes more corruption than the sin of homosexuality.[1]
This being said, homosexuality has nonetheless never actually been perceived as a nullifier of faith altogether. Thus, as far as technicalities are concerned, it is possible for one to be homosexual and Muslim at the same time.
But for the sake of the full picture, I did note that homosexuality was unquestionably prohibited as far as classical discourse was concerned –to the extent that it might conceivably become more logical for one to leave Islam altogether than to justify the wholesale adoption of homosexuality using Islamic sources.
What I should have added however, in hindsight, is that a Muslim troubled with homosexual inclinations might perhaps be regarded as spiritually superior to their brethren in faith provided they not act on these inclinations. The Prophet ﷺ said:
Allah decreed good deeds and bad deeds; then He explained that. Whoever thinks of doing a good deed then does not do it, Allah will write it down as one complete good deed. If he thinks of doing a good deed and then does it, Allah will write it down [as counting] from between ten and seven hundred fold or many more. If he thinks of doing a bad deed then he does not do it, Allah will write it down as one complete good deed, and if he thinks of it then does it, Allah will write it down as one bad deed.[2]
Like the infuriated individual who refuses to act on his anger or the lecherous that reject their base desires, those troubled with homosexual thoughts and desires will also be rewarded for whatever he/she chooses not to act on.
Despite such a blessing –albeit one which requires a struggle– many, such as Scott Kugle, an openly gay Muslim academic, argues that Islamic law must be altered in order to match the current societal paradigm towards homosexuality:
If Muslims do not adapt to new circumstances by changing some rulings of the Shari’ah, then increasingly many will opt for secular solutions. They may hold that the Shari’ah need not be followed out[side] of the field of ritual norms for worship, or they may leave Islam altogether in frustration…[3]
Much like Kugle, was an anonymous gay Muslim based in Brisbane whom my interviewer –in order to give me greater context regarding what he was writing in his article– informed me of. This individual apparently held similar views in that he, like Kugle, took the position that the Quran never explicitly forbade homosexuality.
In a sense, perhaps he was correct in that the Quran has never used the word ‘homosexuality’ (i.e. liwâṭ). However, this absence of the term is most likely due to the fact that the Arabic word for homosexuality is derived from the name of the very prophet (Arabic Lûṭ; English Lot) who was sent to warn his people against such lewd behavior; thus the Quran might have avoided utilizing a form of his name in such a manner –in order to maintain his honor.
Additionally, it may also be argued that homosexuality, as a concept, may not have been as well-known as it is today. Louis Crompton (d. 2009), a pioneer in the instruction of “queer studies,” writes:
Homosexuality seems to have been comparatively little in evidence among the Bedouins of Arabia in pre-Islamic times. It has been suggested that Arab attitudes toward sex underwent a change as they conquered more advanced and sophisticated empires, especially Sassanian Persia.[4]
When one examines the prohibition, as found in the Quran, one cannot ignore (or reinterpret) how Prophet Lot refers so negatively to the transgression committed by his people:
Indeed, you practice your lusts on men instead of women. Nay! You are but a people transgressing beyond bounds. [Sûrat Al-Aʿrâf, 7:80-81]
A cursory reading of this story, even if it is done through the aid of a translation, settles any reasonable doubt that the deeds which Lot objected to were explicitly homosexuality and not merely rape, as is claimed by those who justify homosexuality within the context of Islam.
The Prophet ﷺ said:
There is nothing I fear for my ummah more than the deed of the people of Lot.[5]
It goes without saying that aḥâdîth of such a nature –despite being typically authenticated by an overwhelming number of specialists and forming the basis for several scholarly views– are routinely critiqued by non-specialists such as Bin Jahangir (an economist) who claims:
Most [a]hadith that are used to condemn same-sex relationships are of a dubious nature and most opinions of jurists indicate a lack of appreciation for this issue.[6]
Given the vast societal changes which have occurred within the last few decades, including the acceptance of homosexuality as a norm, the greater question which Muslim communities –particularly those in the West– must come to terms with is,
How do we deal with people who argue that homosexuality is not condemned in Islam?
The fact is, there has been a consensus historically, which is alluded to by Imam Al-Baihaqi (d. 1066) in his compilation of prophetic traditions, [among other scholarly works]. Accordingly, it would be not only intellectually dishonest but also spiritually disingenuous for us to claim an acceptance of a homosexual norm.
Even if current [non-Muslim] societal norms appear to give freedom to such a lifestyle, this way of thinking restricts the freedom to respect those who take a different moral position, shunning the perspective of anyone who advocates otherwise. To those who accept the authority and wisdom of Allah and his messengers, the Quran warns:
And if you obey most of those upon the earth, they will mislead you from the way of Allah. They follow not except assumption, and they are not but falsifying. [Sûrat Al-Anʿâm, 6:116]
In our time especially, a critique of homosexuality is tantamount to bigotry. Norman Geisler, a Christian apologist, defines bigotry as a “pre-judgment without any reasons or grounds for the objection.”[7] Thus, we must be willing to acknowledge that there is admittedly often a fine line which is traversed by members of our community as one cannot entirely claim to understand what our brethren are going through and the shame they may have perhaps experienced when admitting to this kind of problem.
The ummah has never historically had to deal with the wholesale legitimization of such behavior other than in our own times. Thus, what some Muslim communities can and perhaps should be doing is changing the manner in which they approach homosexuals–as opposed to focusing on the prohibition itself.
Likewise, the authors of The Complete Christian Guide to Understanding Homosexuality have suggested that, first of all, one take care in not denigrating members of such a persuasion. And furthermore we must similarly not confuse a moral position with an evil such as prejudice and intolerance.[8]
Such a fine-tuned approach is, no doubt, consistent with the Qur’anic commandment of implementing wisdom and fair preaching:
Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and fair preaching and argue with them in a way that is better. Truly, your Lord knows best who has gone astray from His path, and He is the Best Aware of those who are guided. [Sûrat Al-Naḥl, 16:125]
Having said this, it would be prudent to differentiate between those that publicly preach a message contrary to the well-established norms required by Islam and those that ‘quietly suffer’ whilst acknowledging the status of such a prohibition.
Regarding the relationships ”straight’ Muslims may potentially maintain with such people, one of the final questions asked of me by my interviewer was whether it would be acceptable for someone who identifies himself or herself as gay or lesbian to attend prayers. As Muslims, we should never feel comfortable with ‘barring’ someone from a place that is intended to foster a relationship with one’s Creator, even if that person knowingly or unknowingly were to persist in what would be deemed as sinful behavior.
Like anyone who falls into sin or deviancy, we should be praying for their spiritual wellbeing and we should be proactive in helping them overcome through understanding, kindness– and of course persistence. Thus the issue becomes one regarding how we wish to ‘orientate’ ourselves for the purposes of conveying the message truthfully.
——————–
[1] Al-Jawâb Al-Kâfi, pp. 240-245.
[2] Al-Bukhâri (no. 6491) and Muslim (no. 131)
[3] Kugle, Scott, Homosexuality in Islam, Oneworld Press, 2010, p. 185.
[4] Crompton, L., Homosexuality and Civilization, Harvard University Press, 2003, p. 170.
[5] Al-Tirmidhi (no. 1457) and Ibn Mâjah (no. 2563). This hadith was classed as sahih by Shaykh Al-Albâni (may Allâh have mercy on him) in Sahîh al-Jâmi’, no. 1552.
[6] Habib, S., Islam and Homosexuality, vol. 1, ABC-CLIO, 2010, p. xlvii.
[7] Geisler, N.L., Christian Ethics: Contemporary Issues and Opinions, Baker Academic, 2010, p. 296.
[8] Dallas, J. & Heche, N., The Complete Christian Guide to Understanding Homosexuality, Harvest House Publishers, 2010, p. 150.
81 Comments
Red
June 2, 2016 - - 3:35 pmread up on Islam and Liberalism @Haqiqatjou @asmauddinesq
Mehreen Mansoor Khawaja
June 2, 2016 - - 3:58 pmAnd yet muslims says islams and muslims are the most tolerant and peaceful people/religion. no one gives anyone the right to tell/ask another person to believe or not to have faith. killing is a major sin, black magic and adultery are far worse sins! would u tell those people to also leave islam? whatever that means. Last time i checked it was extremists and terrorists that were destroying the world and Islam. not some random individuals!
Mehreen Mansoor Khawaja
June 2, 2016 - - 3:58 pmAnd yet muslims says islam and muslims are the most tolerant and peaceful people/religion. no one gives anyone the right to tell/ask another person to believe or not to have faith. killing is a major sin, black magic and adultery are far worse sins! would u tell those people to also leave islam? whatever that means. Last time i checked it was extremists and terrorists that were destroying the world and Islam. not some random individuals with their personal lives!
Layla Graham
June 2, 2016 - - 7:57 pmActually both killing an innocent soul and engaging in sorcery/black magic automatically remove you from the fold of Islam. Homosexuality destroys the family unit, therefore destroying society. I highly recommend you research, in just a normal, google search about “the real origins of homosexuality”.
Madinah Diallo
June 2, 2016 - - 10:53 pmI don’t know that adultery and black magic are far worse sins than killing someone in Islam. Please do research and get off of the impression that you know what you’re talking about.
Adam Alale Alhassan
June 3, 2016 - - 1:10 amIgnorant
Amatullah Jabar
June 3, 2016 - - 6:05 amEveryone claims to be moderate, even if they are not Muslim; man beguiles himself so that he can reassure himself of his methodology. However, Allah has already resolved the meaning of moderation:
{ وَأَنَّ هَذَا صِرَاطِي مُسْتَقِيمًا فَاتَّبِعُوهُ }
“And this is My path, which is straight, so follow it.” [Al-Anʿām 6:153]
كل أحد يدّعي (الاعتدال) ولو لم يكن مسلما، يُسلّي الإنسان نفسه ليطمئن على منهجه، ولكن الله حسم بيان الاعتدال (وأن هذا صراطي مستقيما فاتبعوه)
Summer Severt Breeze
June 3, 2016 - - 10:22 amLayla, most people are part of families, whether gay or straight. Some people are single, whether gay or straight. Love of family is a wholly separate issue from sexual orientation. (Although I will concede that homophobia has probably destroyed a family or two)
Mehreen Mansoor Khawaja
June 3, 2016 - - 10:24 amLayla Graham how does it destroy the family system exactly?! And i highly recommend u learn a little bit of humanity and science besides purely your beliefs! NO one can declare anyone non-muslim except God! So stop playing God!
Mehreen Mansoor Khawaja
June 3, 2016 - - 10:26 amSummer Severt Breeze if families arw destroyed because gay men for example are forced to marry women and the truth eventually comes out and an innocent women’s life is destroyed or if a bigoted family is unable to accept a gay child, then those families are hallow and not worthy of being called a family to begin with!
Mehreen Mansoor Khawaja
June 3, 2016 - - 10:28 amMadinah Diallo i never said they were! Clearly u need better reading skills and and attitude adjustment.
Syed Muhammad Ali
June 3, 2016 - - 1:11 pmHippie Love eh
Hebz Ibzz
June 3, 2016 - - 4:07 pmNah Mehreen Mansoor Khawaja, let’s just let you and other liberals push homonationalism on Islam and Muslims with the usual blackmail of “tolerance” discourses. Never mind that people who develop same sex attraction after marriage and truly love their wives and families are shamed and targetted by the gay community, especially it’s lobby for wanting to continue the marriage rather than breaking it up and for seeking the help of a psychologist to help them manage their urges. Never mind that practising Muslims who have same sex attractions but don’t want to identify as gay are equally targetted and demonised as “internalising homophobia” , the identity literally forced on them weather they want it or not. Lol, as if you stand for “tolerance”, you push a liberal homonational conformist agenda. And btw, the article mentions those who wish to justify it using reformist methods. Not those who live the lifestyle and identify as Muslim but don’t argue that they’re actions are halal. Actually, Islamically, those who argue it is permissible have automatically left the fold of Islam and this is noted in all four schools of thought.
Mustafa Mahmud
June 5, 2016 - - 11:57 pmMehreen Mansoor Khawaja Those who are not Muslims are nonMuslims as well as thought who fail to make haram what Allah and His Messenger made haram.
Mehreen Mansoor Khawaja
June 7, 2016 - - 8:04 amHebz Ibzz lol again with your self-righteousness tying to play God and decide who is a muslim and who is not. go live in your bigoted world. exactly people like you ridicule west for their secular laws and ‘islamophobic’ mentality yet openly preach intolerance and hated. you are the epitome of hypocrisy.
Mehreen Mansoor Khawaja
June 2, 2016 - - 3:58 pmAnd yet muslims says islam and muslims are the most tolerant and peaceful people/religion. no one gives anyone the right to tell/ask another person to believe or not to have faith. killing is a major sin, black magic and adultery are far worse sins! would u tell those people to also leave islam? whatever that means. Last time i checked it was extremists and terrorists that were destroying the world and Islam. not some random individuals with their personal lives!
Layla Graham
June 2, 2016 - - 7:57 pmActually both killing an innocent soul and engaging in sorcery/black magic automatically remove you from the fold of Islam. Homosexuality destroys the family unit, therefore destroying society. I highly recommend you research, in just a normal, google search about “the real origins of homosexuality”.
Madinah Diallo
June 2, 2016 - - 10:53 pmI don’t know that adultery and black magic are far worse sins than killing someone in Islam. Please do research and get off of the impression that you know what you’re talking about.
Adam Alale Alhassan
June 3, 2016 - - 1:10 amIgnorant
Amatullah Jabar
June 3, 2016 - - 6:05 amEveryone claims to be moderate, even if they are not Muslim; man beguiles himself so that he can reassure himself of his methodology. However, Allah has already resolved the meaning of moderation:
{ وَأَنَّ هَذَا صِرَاطِي مُسْتَقِيمًا فَاتَّبِعُوهُ }
“And this is My path, which is straight, so follow it.” [Al-Anʿām 6:153]
كل أحد يدّعي (الاعتدال) ولو لم يكن مسلما، يُسلّي الإنسان نفسه ليطمئن على منهجه، ولكن الله حسم بيان الاعتدال (وأن هذا صراطي مستقيما فاتبعوه)
Summer Severt Breeze
June 3, 2016 - - 10:22 amLayla, most people are part of families, whether gay or straight. Some people are single, whether gay or straight. Love of family is a wholly separate issue from sexual orientation. (Although I will concede that homophobia has probably destroyed a family or two)
Mehreen Mansoor Khawaja
June 3, 2016 - - 10:24 amLayla Graham how does it destroy the family system exactly?! And i highly recommend u learn a little bit of humanity and science besides purely your beliefs! NO one can declare anyone non-muslim except God! So stop playing God!
Mehreen Mansoor Khawaja
June 3, 2016 - - 10:26 amSummer Severt Breeze if families arw destroyed because gay men for example are forced to marry women and the truth eventually comes out and an innocent women’s life is destroyed or if a bigoted family is unable to accept a gay child, then those families are hallow and not worthy of being called a family to begin with!
Mehreen Mansoor Khawaja
June 3, 2016 - - 10:28 amMadinah Diallo i never said they were! Clearly u need better reading skills and and attitude adjustment.
Syed Muhammad Ali
June 3, 2016 - - 1:11 pmHippie Love eh
Hebz Ibzz
June 3, 2016 - - 4:07 pmNah Mehreen Mansoor Khawaja, let’s just let you and other liberals push homonationalism on Islam and Muslims with the usual blackmail of “tolerance” discourses. Never mind that people who develop same sex attraction after marriage and truly love their wives and families are shamed and targetted by the gay community, especially it’s lobby for wanting to continue the marriage rather than breaking it up and for seeking the help of a psychologist to help them manage their urges. Never mind that practising Muslims who have same sex attractions but don’t want to identify as gay are equally targetted and demonised as “internalising homophobia” , the identity literally forced on them weather they want it or not. Lol, as if you stand for “tolerance”, you push a liberal homonational conformist agenda. And btw, the article mentions those who wish to justify it using reformist methods. Not those who live the lifestyle and identify as Muslim but don’t argue that they’re actions are halal. Actually, Islamically, those who argue it is permissible have automatically left the fold of Islam and this is noted in all four schools of thought.
Mustafa Mahmud
June 5, 2016 - - 11:57 pmMehreen Mansoor Khawaja Those who are not Muslims are nonMuslims as well as thought who fail to make haram what Allah and His Messenger made haram.
Mehreen Mansoor Khawaja
June 7, 2016 - - 8:04 amHebz Ibzz lol again with your self-righteousness tying to play God and decide who is a muslim and who is not. go live in your bigoted world. exactly people like you ridicule west for their secular laws and ‘islamophobic’ mentality yet openly preach intolerance and hated. you are the epitome of hypocrisy.
Tammara Alwaked
June 2, 2016 - - 5:20 pmYou cannot act on it. It will always be against Islam.
Tammara Alwaked
June 2, 2016 - - 5:20 pmYou cannot act on it. It will always be against Islam.
Tammara Alwaked
June 2, 2016 - - 5:20 pmYou cannot act on it. It will always be against Islam.
Ummi Maira
June 2, 2016 - - 5:26 pmThe thief can be a muslim, the murderer can be a muslim as long as they recognise that they are sinning at the time of stealing or killing …if a thief starts justifying stealing than technically he has left the very practise of the faith he wants to be attached to – Allahu Aalim
Ummi Maira
June 2, 2016 - - 5:26 pmThe thief can be a muslim, the murderer can be a muslim as long as they recognise that they are sinning at the time of stealing or killing …if a thief starts justifying stealing than technically he has left the very practise of the faith he wants to be attached to – Allahu Aalim
Ummi Maira
June 2, 2016 - - 5:26 pmThe thief can be a muslim, the murderer can be a muslim as long as they recognise that they are sinning at the time of stealing or killing …if a thief starts justifying stealing than technically he has left the very practise of the faith he wants to be attached to – Allahu Aalim
عائشة أحمد
June 2, 2016 - - 5:26 pmI don’t think we choose to have or not have iman. It is just in the heart. What we do choose is the action. I person regardless of sexuality can also choose action that is beneficial to his or her iman. A good action may over ride a bad action Allah Knows best. I don’t think it is ever safe to say anyone is not a Muslim. I don’t think a sinful action can be claimed to be a righteous action but does a sinful action deem a person a none Muslim? I don’t know I don’t know if or what state the person will die in but more important to me is I don’t know what state I will die in? May Allah guide us all to the right straight path and lead us to Jannah.
عائشة أحمد
June 2, 2016 - - 5:26 pmI don’t think we choose to have or not have iman. It is just in the heart. What we do choose is the action. I person regardless of sexuality can also choose action that is beneficial to his or her iman. A good action may over ride a bad action Allah Knows best. I don’t think it is ever safe to say anyone is not a Muslim. I don’t think a sinful action can be claimed to be a righteous action but does a sinful action deem a person a none Muslim? I don’t know I don’t know if or what state the person will die in but more important to me is I don’t know what state I will die in? May Allah guide us all to the right straight path and lead us to Jannah.
عائشة أحمد
June 2, 2016 - - 5:26 pmI don’t think we choose to have or not have iman. It is just in the heart. What we do choose is the action. I person regardless of sexuality can also choose action that is beneficial to his or her iman. A good action may over ride a bad action Allah Knows best. I don’t think it is ever safe to say anyone is not a Muslim. I don’t think a sinful action can be claimed to be a righteous action but does a sinful action deem a person a none Muslim? I don’t know I don’t know if or what state the person will die in but more important to me is I don’t know what state I will die in? May Allah guide us all to the right straight path and lead us to Jannah.
Farxiya Waji Moos
June 2, 2016 - - 7:26 pmFrom Daniel Haqiqatjou, I wanted to share this piece: Many within our community incorrectly think that “homosexuals need to be converted to heterosexuality.” This is a mistake because, again, we do not have these categories in our understanding of human nature and many of the questions surrounding these desires, their origin, their mutability, etc., are not strictly known or defined by our Islamic worldview. For example, do we believe that Allah has tested some people by creating them with an innate and exclusive same-sex desire? Or are such desires the result of the environment of the person or some other set of developmental circumstances that have impacted the person beyond his own choosing? In either case, can this condition be changed? And should we seek such change, whether in the same way that many Christian groups have sought to address what they believe are environmental factors that influence a person having same-sex attraction, or in some other way?
Ultimately, having answers to these questions is not something upon which our moral stance is predicated. We do not need to answer these questions as a pre-condition for holding same-sex acts to be forbidden. From the perspective of normative Islam, and depending on the situation, we could treat the issue like we treat any other shahwa. If a brother comes to an imam and tells him that he is constantly struggling with indecent thoughts about non-mahram women he sees, the imam would not try to “convert” this brother or to fundamentally change his identity. Rather, the imam would give tips on how this brother can train himself and discipline his heart and mind so as to avoid the danger of falling into sin. This could also be a basic approach for those Muslims who are struggling with indecent thoughts about same-sex acts (with the caveat, of course, that some Muslims may need much more extensive counseling from professionals, ideally Muslim professionals, who are also sensitive to the Islamic norms on same-sex acts). Our religion provides much guidance on controlling and mitigating evil desires, and same-sex desires need not be treated as fundamentally different on this level. (Regarding the possibility of overcoming or otherwise addressing possible root causes of same-sex desires in a given individual, this is something that ought only to be addressed by trained professionals with relevant experience in dealing with such cases, not something that the imam, mosque, or religious community as such should take a position on or try to guide someone through in a haphazard manner.)
Related to this, it is not always best to advise Muslims with same-sex attraction to simply find a good Muslim of the opposite sex and marry him or her in an effort to control same-sex desires. This could lead to much grief and misery, especially if the spouse later discovers that his wife or her husband “is a homosexual.” There are many painful examples of this happening in our communities. However, if a Muslim realizes that his same-sex desires are a test like any other and that those desires do not fundamentally change his identity as a Muslim, then it should not be out of the question for this person to get married so long as he can maintain the rights of his spouse. The same goes for sisters with same-sex desire. In fact, in some Muslim countries in the world, we already see this practice, where Muslim men have a desire to penetrate other men despite the fact that they are already married. Unfortunately, some of these men do commit liwat, usually with male sex workers in these countries. But even so, they do not consider themselves as “gay” or as “homosexuals.” Some of them may even be married. None of this is to say that their actions are anything but major crimes. The point is simply that having same-sex desire is not necessarily antithetical to having a healthy marriage with someone of the opposite sex (though it may, indeed, constitute a significant risk factor for some, and the advisability of marriage can only be determined on a case-by-case basis). And there are examples of this in our community as well.
What if a spouse discovers that her husband has same-sex desires? For many Muslim women today, to discover this would be a disaster because, in their minds, this means that their husbands are “homosexuals” who do not have any sexual desire for women, including their own wives, which means that these husbands have been deceiving their wives. But, again, if we discard this notion of homosexuality, there is no irresolvable problem here. As long as the husband does not act on his desire and he works to mitigate and control that desire, then this is like any other case of shahwa in that it does not disqualify the possibility of him feeling sexual desire for his wife and, practically speaking, he does not reveal these shahawat to his wife or others. Neither husband nor wife is immune to shahwa, so why should this particular kind of desire or temptation be discussed openly or treated as an enormity or a cause for divorce? As long as a husband is able to maintain the rights of his wife and control his desires, then there is no technical reason for a wife to shun or separate from him if she discovers somehow that those desires exist, especially if it is a loving, healthy relationship. The point is, it is a fallacy to think that if this husband has feelings of same-sex attraction that automatically means he is “gay” and, therefore, has no sexual attraction to his wife. To think this way would be to accept the notion of exclusive, immutable sexual orientation that constitutes a person’s identity. In actuality, human desires are far more complex, dynamic, and cannot be pigeonholed in such a simplistic fashion. The Islamic understanding of shahwa bears witness to this fact. We should not abandon this Islamic perspective in our rush to accept the categories and value systems of modern liberal culture.
[Excerpt from my essay, linked below.] https://www.facebook.com/haqiqatjou/posts/1764036523815062
Mehreen Mansoor Khawaja
June 3, 2016 - - 1:21 pmthis is no ignorant on so many levels. totally oversimplifying a very complex situation and telling women to deal with such husbands. what a ignorant thing. wives are not machines or some magic potion that would enable a gay man to curb or eliminate his urges. that is putting it as a disease, which is again ignorant.
Hebz Ibzz
June 3, 2016 - - 4:11 pmMehreen Mansoor Khawaja, you’re ignorant.
Hebz Ibzz
June 3, 2016 - - 4:14 pmMany same sex attracted Muslims, Christians and Jews are married. Many decide not to marry. They do what they need to to maintain their faith. It’s our role as a community to assist them in this aim. They don’t justify their desires by twisting and lying about history and sacred texts and liberal blackmailing and forced homonationalism isn’t going to alter that.
Farxiya Waji Moos
June 2, 2016 - - 7:26 pmFrom Daniel Haqiqatjou, I wanted to share this piece: Many within our community incorrectly think that “homosexuals need to be converted to heterosexuality.” This is a mistake because, again, we do not have these categories in our understanding of human nature and many of the questions surrounding these desires, their origin, their mutability, etc., are not strictly known or defined by our Islamic worldview. For example, do we believe that Allah has tested some people by creating them with an innate and exclusive same-sex desire? Or are such desires the result of the environment of the person or some other set of developmental circumstances that have impacted the person beyond his own choosing? In either case, can this condition be changed? And should we seek such change, whether in the same way that many Christian groups have sought to address what they believe are environmental factors that influence a person having same-sex attraction, or in some other way?
Ultimately, having answers to these questions is not something upon which our moral stance is predicated. We do not need to answer these questions as a pre-condition for holding same-sex acts to be forbidden. From the perspective of normative Islam, and depending on the situation, we could treat the issue like we treat any other shahwa. If a brother comes to an imam and tells him that he is constantly struggling with indecent thoughts about non-mahram women he sees, the imam would not try to “convert” this brother or to fundamentally change his identity. Rather, the imam would give tips on how this brother can train himself and discipline his heart and mind so as to avoid the danger of falling into sin. This could also be a basic approach for those Muslims who are struggling with indecent thoughts about same-sex acts (with the caveat, of course, that some Muslims may need much more extensive counseling from professionals, ideally Muslim professionals, who are also sensitive to the Islamic norms on same-sex acts). Our religion provides much guidance on controlling and mitigating evil desires, and same-sex desires need not be treated as fundamentally different on this level. (Regarding the possibility of overcoming or otherwise addressing possible root causes of same-sex desires in a given individual, this is something that ought only to be addressed by trained professionals with relevant experience in dealing with such cases, not something that the imam, mosque, or religious community as such should take a position on or try to guide someone through in a haphazard manner.)
Related to this, it is not always best to advise Muslims with same-sex attraction to simply find a good Muslim of the opposite sex and marry him or her in an effort to control same-sex desires. This could lead to much grief and misery, especially if the spouse later discovers that his wife or her husband “is a homosexual.” There are many painful examples of this happening in our communities. However, if a Muslim realizes that his same-sex desires are a test like any other and that those desires do not fundamentally change his identity as a Muslim, then it should not be out of the question for this person to get married so long as he can maintain the rights of his spouse. The same goes for sisters with same-sex desire. In fact, in some Muslim countries in the world, we already see this practice, where Muslim men have a desire to penetrate other men despite the fact that they are already married. Unfortunately, some of these men do commit liwat, usually with male sex workers in these countries. But even so, they do not consider themselves as “gay” or as “homosexuals.” Some of them may even be married. None of this is to say that their actions are anything but major crimes. The point is simply that having same-sex desire is not necessarily antithetical to having a healthy marriage with someone of the opposite sex (though it may, indeed, constitute a significant risk factor for some, and the advisability of marriage can only be determined on a case-by-case basis). And there are examples of this in our community as well.
What if a spouse discovers that her husband has same-sex desires? For many Muslim women today, to discover this would be a disaster because, in their minds, this means that their husbands are “homosexuals” who do not have any sexual desire for women, including their own wives, which means that these husbands have been deceiving their wives. But, again, if we discard this notion of homosexuality, there is no irresolvable problem here. As long as the husband does not act on his desire and he works to mitigate and control that desire, then this is like any other case of shahwa in that it does not disqualify the possibility of him feeling sexual desire for his wife and, practically speaking, he does not reveal these shahawat to his wife or others. Neither husband nor wife is immune to shahwa, so why should this particular kind of desire or temptation be discussed openly or treated as an enormity or a cause for divorce? As long as a husband is able to maintain the rights of his wife and control his desires, then there is no technical reason for a wife to shun or separate from him if she discovers somehow that those desires exist, especially if it is a loving, healthy relationship. The point is, it is a fallacy to think that if this husband has feelings of same-sex attraction that automatically means he is “gay” and, therefore, has no sexual attraction to his wife. To think this way would be to accept the notion of exclusive, immutable sexual orientation that constitutes a person’s identity. In actuality, human desires are far more complex, dynamic, and cannot be pigeonholed in such a simplistic fashion. The Islamic understanding of shahwa bears witness to this fact. We should not abandon this Islamic perspective in our rush to accept the categories and value systems of modern liberal culture.
[Excerpt from my essay, linked below.] https://www.facebook.com/haqiqatjou/posts/1764036523815062
Mehreen Mansoor Khawaja
June 3, 2016 - - 1:21 pmthis is no ignorant on so many levels. totally oversimplifying a very complex situation and telling women to deal with such husbands. what a ignorant thing. wives are not machines or some magic potion that would enable a gay man to curb or eliminate his urges. that is putting it as a disease, which is again ignorant.
Hebz Ibzz
June 3, 2016 - - 4:11 pmMehreen Mansoor Khawaja, you’re ignorant.
Hebz Ibzz
June 3, 2016 - - 4:14 pmMany same sex attracted Muslims, Christians and Jews are married. Many decide not to marry. They do what they need to to maintain their faith. It’s our role as a community to assist them in this aim. They don’t justify their desires by twisting and lying about history and sacred texts and liberal blackmailing and forced homonationalism isn’t going to alter that.
Farxiya Waji Moos
June 2, 2016 - - 7:26 pmFrom Daniel Haqiqatjou, I wanted to share this piece: Many within our community incorrectly think that “homosexuals need to be converted to heterosexuality.” This is a mistake because, again, we do not have these categories in our understanding of human nature and many of the questions surrounding these desires, their origin, their mutability, etc., are not strictly known or defined by our Islamic worldview. For example, do we believe that Allah has tested some people by creating them with an innate and exclusive same-sex desire? Or are such desires the result of the environment of the person or some other set of developmental circumstances that have impacted the person beyond his own choosing? In either case, can this condition be changed? And should we seek such change, whether in the same way that many Christian groups have sought to address what they believe are environmental factors that influence a person having same-sex attraction, or in some other way?
Ultimately, having answers to these questions is not something upon which our moral stance is predicated. We do not need to answer these questions as a pre-condition for holding same-sex acts to be forbidden. From the perspective of normative Islam, and depending on the situation, we could treat the issue like we treat any other shahwa. If a brother comes to an imam and tells him that he is constantly struggling with indecent thoughts about non-mahram women he sees, the imam would not try to “convert” this brother or to fundamentally change his identity. Rather, the imam would give tips on how this brother can train himself and discipline his heart and mind so as to avoid the danger of falling into sin. This could also be a basic approach for those Muslims who are struggling with indecent thoughts about same-sex acts (with the caveat, of course, that some Muslims may need much more extensive counseling from professionals, ideally Muslim professionals, who are also sensitive to the Islamic norms on same-sex acts). Our religion provides much guidance on controlling and mitigating evil desires, and same-sex desires need not be treated as fundamentally different on this level. (Regarding the possibility of overcoming or otherwise addressing possible root causes of same-sex desires in a given individual, this is something that ought only to be addressed by trained professionals with relevant experience in dealing with such cases, not something that the imam, mosque, or religious community as such should take a position on or try to guide someone through in a haphazard manner.)
Related to this, it is not always best to advise Muslims with same-sex attraction to simply find a good Muslim of the opposite sex and marry him or her in an effort to control same-sex desires. This could lead to much grief and misery, especially if the spouse later discovers that his wife or her husband “is a homosexual.” There are many painful examples of this happening in our communities. However, if a Muslim realizes that his same-sex desires are a test like any other and that those desires do not fundamentally change his identity as a Muslim, then it should not be out of the question for this person to get married so long as he can maintain the rights of his spouse. The same goes for sisters with same-sex desire. In fact, in some Muslim countries in the world, we already see this practice, where Muslim men have a desire to penetrate other men despite the fact that they are already married. Unfortunately, some of these men do commit liwat, usually with male sex workers in these countries. But even so, they do not consider themselves as “gay” or as “homosexuals.” Some of them may even be married. None of this is to say that their actions are anything but major crimes. The point is simply that having same-sex desire is not necessarily antithetical to having a healthy marriage with someone of the opposite sex (though it may, indeed, constitute a significant risk factor for some, and the advisability of marriage can only be determined on a case-by-case basis). And there are examples of this in our community as well.
What if a spouse discovers that her husband has same-sex desires? For many Muslim women today, to discover this would be a disaster because, in their minds, this means that their husbands are “homosexuals” who do not have any sexual desire for women, including their own wives, which means that these husbands have been deceiving their wives. But, again, if we discard this notion of homosexuality, there is no irresolvable problem here. As long as the husband does not act on his desire and he works to mitigate and control that desire, then this is like any other case of shahwa in that it does not disqualify the possibility of him feeling sexual desire for his wife and, practically speaking, he does not reveal these shahawat to his wife or others. Neither husband nor wife is immune to shahwa, so why should this particular kind of desire or temptation be discussed openly or treated as an enormity or a cause for divorce? As long as a husband is able to maintain the rights of his wife and control his desires, then there is no technical reason for a wife to shun or separate from him if she discovers somehow that those desires exist, especially if it is a loving, healthy relationship. The point is, it is a fallacy to think that if this husband has feelings of same-sex attraction that automatically means he is “gay” and, therefore, has no sexual attraction to his wife. To think this way would be to accept the notion of exclusive, immutable sexual orientation that constitutes a person’s identity. In actuality, human desires are far more complex, dynamic, and cannot be pigeonholed in such a simplistic fashion. The Islamic understanding of shahwa bears witness to this fact. We should not abandon this Islamic perspective in our rush to accept the categories and value systems of modern liberal culture.
[Excerpt from my essay, linked below.] https://www.facebook.com/haqiqatjou/posts/1764036523815062
Mehreen Mansoor Khawaja
June 3, 2016 - - 1:21 pmthis is no ignorant on so many levels. totally oversimplifying a very complex situation and telling women to deal with such husbands. what a ignorant thing. wives are not machines or some magic potion that would enable a gay man to curb or eliminate his urges. that is putting it as a disease, which is again ignorant.
Hebz Ibzz
June 3, 2016 - - 4:11 pmMehreen Mansoor Khawaja, you’re ignorant.
Hebz Ibzz
June 3, 2016 - - 4:14 pmMany same sex attracted Muslims, Christians and Jews are married. Many decide not to marry. They do what they need to to maintain their faith. It’s our role as a community to assist them in this aim. They don’t justify their desires by twisting and lying about history and sacred texts and liberal blackmailing and forced homonationalism isn’t going to alter that.
Layla Graham
June 2, 2016 - - 7:57 pmActually both killing an innocent soul and engaging in sorcery/black magic automatically remove you from the fold of Islam. Homosexuality destroys the family unit, therefore destroying society. I highly recommend you research, in just a normal, google search about “the real origins of homosexuality”.
Deonna Kelli Sayed
June 2, 2016 - - 8:42 pmBeing “gay” isn’t exclusively related to sexual attraction. To think that is all there is to being homosexual is a sex act is a very simplistic (and naive) position, regardless of faith orientation.
Deonna Kelli Sayed
June 2, 2016 - - 8:42 pmBeing “gay” isn’t exclusively related to sexual attraction. To think that is all there is to being homosexual is a sex act is a very simplistic (and naive) position, regardless of faith orientation.
Deonna Kelli Sayed
June 2, 2016 - - 8:42 pmBeing “gay” isn’t exclusively related to sexual attraction. To think that is all there is to being homosexual is a sex act is a very simplistic (and naive) position, regardless of faith orientation.
Madinah Diallo
June 2, 2016 - - 10:53 pmI don’t know that adultery and black magic are far worse sins than killing someone in Islam. Please do research and get off of the impression that you know what you’re talking about.
Adam Alale Alhassan
June 3, 2016 - - 1:10 amIgnorant
Ann Marie Lambert Stock
June 3, 2016 - - 1:13 amA very touchy subject. Their private suffering is no greater than a heterosexual person unable to get married or impotent. So many people suffer on so many levels due to alcoholism, drug addiction. No one has the right to legitimize the illegitimate just so he can have his wrong doing justified. That’s the bottom line. I wonder how a person can follow an imam who openly sins and wants his sins accepted…. I really wonder if our ummah has a future when we see Allah’sﷻ reaction to a sin and we don’t feel scared to death the same might happen to us.
Ann Marie Lambert Stock
June 3, 2016 - - 1:13 amA very touchy subject. Their private suffering is no greater than a heterosexual person unable to get married or impotent. So many people suffer on so many levels due to alcoholism, drug addiction. No one has the right to legitimize the illegitimate just so he can have his wrong doing justified. That’s the bottom line. I wonder how a person can follow an imam who openly sins and wants his sins accepted…. I really wonder if our ummah has a future when we see Allah’sﷻ reaction to a sin and we don’t feel scared to death the same might happen to us.
Ann Marie Lambert Stock
June 3, 2016 - - 1:13 amA very touchy subject. Their private suffering is no greater than a heterosexual person unable to get married or impotent. So many people suffer on so many levels due to alcoholism, drug addiction. No one has the right to legitimize the illegitimate just so he can have his wrong doing justified. That’s the bottom line. I wonder how a person can follow an imam who openly sins and wants his sins accepted…. I really wonder if our ummah has a future when we see Allah’sﷻ reaction to a sin and we don’t feel scared to death the same might happen to us.
Dahlia Ahmad
June 3, 2016 - - 2:09 amAs long as they do not act upon it
http://en.islamtoday.net/artshow-427-3227.htm
Dahlia Ahmad
June 3, 2016 - - 2:09 amAs long as they do not act upon it
http://en.islamtoday.net/artshow-427-3227.htm
Dahlia Ahmad
June 3, 2016 - - 2:09 amAs long as they do not act upon it
http://en.islamtoday.net/artshow-427-3227.htm
Jenna Dawn
June 3, 2016 - - 2:16 amNothing is absolute and faith is very personal. If believing in God and Islam makes you a better and happier person I think the rest is left for God to decide. I will never believe if you’re a good person God will turn his back because of the way he has made you. It seems rather petty if so.
Jenna Dawn
June 3, 2016 - - 2:16 amNothing is absolute and faith is very personal. If believing in God and Islam makes you a better and happier person I think the rest is left for God to decide. I will never believe if you’re a good person God will turn his back because of the way he has made you. It seems rather petty if so.
Amatullah Jabar
June 3, 2016 - - 6:05 amEveryone claims to be moderate, even if they are not Muslim; man beguiles himself so that he can reassure himself of his methodology. However, Allah has already resolved the meaning of moderation:
{ وَأَنَّ هَذَا صِرَاطِي مُسْتَقِيمًا فَاتَّبِعُوهُ }
“And this is My path, which is straight, so follow it.” [Al-Anʿām 6:153]
كل أحد يدّعي (الاعتدال) ولو لم يكن مسلما، يُسلّي الإنسان نفسه ليطمئن على منهجه، ولكن الله حسم بيان الاعتدال (وأن هذا صراطي مستقيما فاتبعوه)
Aleksandr Volgushev
June 3, 2016 - - 7:54 am“Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.”
“Micah 5:15 And I will execute vengeance in anger and fury upon the heathen, such as they have not heard.”
Isaiah 29:6
“Thou shalt be visited of the LORD of hosts with thunder, and with earthquake, and great noise, with storm and tempest, and the flame of devouring fire.”
Amos 4:11 I have overthrown some of you, as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, and ye were as a firebrand plucked out of the burning: yet have ye not returned unto me, saith the LORD.
12 Therefore thus will I do unto thee, O Israel: and because I will do this unto thee, prepare to meet thy God, O Israel.
2 Samuel 22:7-9
7 In my distress I called upon the Lord, and cried to my God: and he did hear my voice out of his temple, and my cry did enter into his ears.
8 Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations of heaven moved and shook, because he was wroth.
9 There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it.
Malachi 2:17
“Ye have wearied the LORD with your words. Yet ye say, Wherein have we wearied him? When ye say, Every one that doeth evil is good in the sight of the LORD, and he delighteth in them; or, Where is the God of judgment?”
Proverb 28:4 “They that forsake the law praise the wicked: but such as keep the law contend with them.”
2 Chronicles 19:2King James Version (KJV)
2 And Jehu the son of Hanani the seer went out to meet him, and said to king Jehoshaphat, Shouldest thou help the ungodly, and love them that hate the Lord? therefore is wrath upon thee from before the Lord.
Isaiah 51:7, “Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings.”
Ezekiel 16:49 “Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.”
Revelation 14:10-11King James Version (KJV)
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Deuteronomy 32:22
For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.
Job 12:10 “In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.”
Zephaniah 1 13 Therefore their goods shall become a booty, and their houses a desolation: they shall also build houses, but not inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, but not drink the wine thereof.
14 The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.
15 That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,
16 A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers.
17 And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung.
18 Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD’S wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.
Nahum 1:2-3
2God is jealous, and the LORD revengeth; the LORD revengeth, and is furious; the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies.
3The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the LORD hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet.
Jeremiah 4:26
26I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
Jeremiah 7:20
20Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, mine anger and my fury shall be poured out upon this place, upon man, and upon beast, and upon the trees of the field, and upon the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched.
Jeremiah 10:10
10But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation. https://youtube.com/watch?v=FnV0WnEkmqw https://youtube.com/watch?v=Aw-jGiPAf08 https://youtube.com/watch?v=BXMA4xOS5BY
Aleksandr Volgushev
June 3, 2016 - - 7:54 am“Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.”
“Micah 5:15 And I will execute vengeance in anger and fury upon the heathen, such as they have not heard.”
Isaiah 29:6
“Thou shalt be visited of the LORD of hosts with thunder, and with earthquake, and great noise, with storm and tempest, and the flame of devouring fire.”
Amos 4:11 I have overthrown some of you, as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, and ye were as a firebrand plucked out of the burning: yet have ye not returned unto me, saith the LORD.
12 Therefore thus will I do unto thee, O Israel: and because I will do this unto thee, prepare to meet thy God, O Israel.
2 Samuel 22:7-9
7 In my distress I called upon the Lord, and cried to my God: and he did hear my voice out of his temple, and my cry did enter into his ears.
8 Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations of heaven moved and shook, because he was wroth.
9 There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it.
Malachi 2:17
“Ye have wearied the LORD with your words. Yet ye say, Wherein have we wearied him? When ye say, Every one that doeth evil is good in the sight of the LORD, and he delighteth in them; or, Where is the God of judgment?”
Proverb 28:4 “They that forsake the law praise the wicked: but such as keep the law contend with them.”
2 Chronicles 19:2King James Version (KJV)
2 And Jehu the son of Hanani the seer went out to meet him, and said to king Jehoshaphat, Shouldest thou help the ungodly, and love them that hate the Lord? therefore is wrath upon thee from before the Lord.
Isaiah 51:7, “Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings.”
Ezekiel 16:49 “Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.”
Revelation 14:10-11King James Version (KJV)
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Deuteronomy 32:22
For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.
Job 12:10 “In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.”
Zephaniah 1 13 Therefore their goods shall become a booty, and their houses a desolation: they shall also build houses, but not inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, but not drink the wine thereof.
14 The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.
15 That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,
16 A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers.
17 And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung.
18 Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD’S wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.
Nahum 1:2-3
2God is jealous, and the LORD revengeth; the LORD revengeth, and is furious; the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies.
3The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the LORD hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet.
Jeremiah 4:26
26I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
Jeremiah 7:20
20Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, mine anger and my fury shall be poured out upon this place, upon man, and upon beast, and upon the trees of the field, and upon the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched.
Jeremiah 10:10
10But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation. https://youtube.com/watch?v=FnV0WnEkmqw https://youtube.com/watch?v=Aw-jGiPAf08 https://youtube.com/watch?v=BXMA4xOS5BY
Aleksandr Volgushev
June 3, 2016 - - 7:54 am“Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.”
“Micah 5:15 And I will execute vengeance in anger and fury upon the heathen, such as they have not heard.”
Isaiah 29:6
“Thou shalt be visited of the LORD of hosts with thunder, and with earthquake, and great noise, with storm and tempest, and the flame of devouring fire.”
Amos 4:11 I have overthrown some of you, as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, and ye were as a firebrand plucked out of the burning: yet have ye not returned unto me, saith the LORD.
12 Therefore thus will I do unto thee, O Israel: and because I will do this unto thee, prepare to meet thy God, O Israel.
2 Samuel 22:7-9
7 In my distress I called upon the Lord, and cried to my God: and he did hear my voice out of his temple, and my cry did enter into his ears.
8 Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations of heaven moved and shook, because he was wroth.
9 There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it.
Malachi 2:17
“Ye have wearied the LORD with your words. Yet ye say, Wherein have we wearied him? When ye say, Every one that doeth evil is good in the sight of the LORD, and he delighteth in them; or, Where is the God of judgment?”
Proverb 28:4 “They that forsake the law praise the wicked: but such as keep the law contend with them.”
2 Chronicles 19:2King James Version (KJV)
2 And Jehu the son of Hanani the seer went out to meet him, and said to king Jehoshaphat, Shouldest thou help the ungodly, and love them that hate the Lord? therefore is wrath upon thee from before the Lord.
Isaiah 51:7, “Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings.”
Ezekiel 16:49 “Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.”
Revelation 14:10-11King James Version (KJV)
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Deuteronomy 32:22
For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.
Job 12:10 “In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.”
Zephaniah 1 13 Therefore their goods shall become a booty, and their houses a desolation: they shall also build houses, but not inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, but not drink the wine thereof.
14 The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.
15 That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,
16 A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers.
17 And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung.
18 Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD’S wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.
Nahum 1:2-3
2God is jealous, and the LORD revengeth; the LORD revengeth, and is furious; the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies.
3The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the LORD hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet.
Jeremiah 4:26
26I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
Jeremiah 7:20
20Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, mine anger and my fury shall be poured out upon this place, upon man, and upon beast, and upon the trees of the field, and upon the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched.
Jeremiah 10:10
10But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation. https://youtube.com/watch?v=FnV0WnEkmqw https://youtube.com/watch?v=Aw-jGiPAf08 https://youtube.com/watch?v=BXMA4xOS5BY
Summer Severt Breeze
June 3, 2016 - - 10:22 amLayla, most people are part of families, whether gay or straight. Some people are single, whether gay or straight. Love of family is a wholly separate issue from sexual orientation. (Although I will concede that homophobia has probably destroyed a family or two)
Mehreen Mansoor Khawaja
June 3, 2016 - - 10:24 amLayla Graham how does it destroy the family system exactly?! And i highly recommend u learn a little bit of humanity and science besides purely your beliefs! NO one can declare anyone non-muslim except God! So stop playing God!
Mehreen Mansoor Khawaja
June 3, 2016 - - 10:26 amSummer Severt Breeze if families arw destroyed because gay men for example are forced to marry women and the truth eventually comes out and an innocent women’s life is destroyed or if a bigoted family is unable to accept a gay child, then those families are hallow and not worthy of being called a family to begin with!
Mehreen Mansoor Khawaja
June 3, 2016 - - 10:28 amMadinah Diallo i never said they were! Clearly u need better reading skills and and attitude adjustment.
Stephanie Renee
June 3, 2016 - - 11:01 am*grumble* I respectfully disagree with the notion that God views homosexuality as lazy. While I appreciate this guy’s attempt at opening up the discourse and preaching tolerance, I would have like to see a detailed critique of Kugle’s book rather than one that lays heavily in “consensus”.
Stephanie Renee
June 3, 2016 - - 11:01 am*grumble* I respectfully disagree with the notion that God views homosexuality as lazy. While I appreciate this guy’s attempt at opening up the discourse and preaching tolerance, I would have like to see a detailed critique of Kugle’s book rather than one that lays heavily in “consensus”.
Stephanie Renee
June 3, 2016 - - 11:01 am*grumble* I respectfully disagree with the notion that God views homosexuality as lazy. While I appreciate this guy’s attempt at opening up the discourse and preaching tolerance, I would have like to see a detailed critique of Kugle’s book rather than one that lays heavily in “consensus”.
Syed Muhammad Ali
June 3, 2016 - - 1:11 pmHippie Love eh
Hebz Ibzz
June 3, 2016 - - 4:07 pmNah Mehreen Mansoor Khawaja, let’s just let you and other liberals push homonationalism on Islam and Muslims with the usual blackmail of “tolerance” discourses. Never mind that people who develop same sex attraction after marriage and truly love their wives and families are shamed and targetted by the gay community, especially it’s lobby for wanting to continue the marriage rather than breaking it up and for seeking the help of a psychologist to help them manage their urges. Never mind that practising Muslims who have same sex attractions but don’t want to identify as gay are equally targetted and demonised as “internalising homophobia” , the identity literally forced on them weather they want it or not. Lol, as if you stand for “tolerance”, you push a liberal homonational conformist agenda. And btw, the article mentions those who wish to justify it using reformist methods. Not those who live the lifestyle and identify as Muslim but don’t argue that they’re actions are halal. Actually, Islamically, those who argue it is permissible have automatically left the fold of Islam and this is noted in all four schools of thought.
Mustafa Mahmud
June 5, 2016 - - 11:57 pmMehreen Mansoor Khawaja Those who are not Muslims are nonMuslims as well as thought who fail to make haram what Allah and His Messenger made haram.
Mehreen Mansoor Khawaja
June 7, 2016 - - 8:04 amHebz Ibzz lol again with your self-righteousness tying to play God and decide who is a muslim and who is not. go live in your bigoted world. exactly people like you ridicule west for their secular laws and ‘islamophobic’ mentality yet openly preach intolerance and hated. you are the epitome of hypocrisy.
Sophia Talal
June 8, 2016 - - 6:56 amIf you go into a deeper study of religion and go as far as reading the Torat (which also prohibits homosexuality), the theme that emerges is that it is not the sexual act that was (I say “was” because of a reason) undesirable to god but the fact that god wanted his followers to have lots of children and grow in numbers. In view of high infant mortality, any act that would prohibit pregnancy (even contraception) was undesirable. Unless one understands the reason behind certain commandments in certain times, one cannot make a judgement about its validity in present times. Does one want homosexuals to have heterosexual relationships and produce more children? What good that would be? What kind of family would that be?
Sophia Talal
June 8, 2016 - - 6:56 amIf you go into a deeper study of religion and go as far as reading the Torat (which also prohibits homosexuality), the theme that emerges is that it is not the sexual act that was (I say “was” because of a reason) undesirable to god but the fact that god wanted his followers to have lots of children and grow in numbers. In view of high infant mortality, any act that would prohibit pregnancy (even contraception) was undesirable. Unless one understands the reason behind certain commandments in certain times, one cannot make a judgement about its validity in present times. Does one want homosexuals to have heterosexual relationships and produce more children? What good that would be? What kind of family would that be?
Sophia Talal
June 8, 2016 - - 6:56 amIf you go into a deeper study of religion and go as far as reading the Torat (which also prohibits homosexuality), the theme that emerges is that it is not the sexual act that was (I say “was” because of a reason) undesirable to god but the fact that god wanted his followers to have lots of children and grow in numbers. In view of high infant mortality, any act that would prohibit pregnancy (even contraception) was undesirable. Unless one understands the reason behind certain commandments in certain times, one cannot make a judgement about its validity in present times. Does one want homosexuals to have heterosexual relationships and produce more children? What good that would be? What kind of family would that be?